THE NEW ZEALAND OPERA SOCIETY

Editor of New Zealand Opera News, Garth Wilshere in conversation with Dame Kiri Te Kanawa on Saturday 31 March 2007.

DKTK

Good morning. How are you?

GW

Good thank you. How’s your trip going?

DKTK

Good, thank you. We did one concert last night.

GW

Yes, I was there and it was fantastic. I was also concerned when I read about all the terrible weather up north. I hope your house is OK?

DKTK

We’ve been very, very lucky. We only had the power out for a few hours. A lot of water damage, but that’s only on the property; it scoured the beach away. We’ve been far more fortunate than a lot of other people.

GW

You seem to be spending more time in NZ now. Do you think that your relationship with NZ and NZers has changed?

DKTK

No, no change.

GW

You just have a chance to get here a bit more often.

DKTK

I think now my life is different because my children have grown up, there’s no more school. When you have children in school you can’t move very far away from the school, and moving children wouldn’t be a good thing, so the children were in England for all their education so that locked me into being in England.

GW

And I gather that you get back to New Zealand as often as you can?

DKTK

As much as I can, if I can.

GW

And you manage to get in a bit of fishing I understand.

DKTK

Yes.

GW

I suppose it’s the sort of thing, being based around Europe, there isn’t necessarily easy access to?

DKTK

They are there, but I’d much rather be in New Zealand doing it.

GW

I’d like to move on and talk to you about the Foundation. Clearly it’s become a major focus for you. I wonder if you could outline its aims, and where you’d like to see it progress to in the future?

DKTK

We’re aiming at especially, highly exceptional talent. Trying to open doors for them and to mentor. I don’t know if you’ve heard about my Jenny Wollerman project?

GW

Yes, I was going to ask you for more detail as we reported on the announcement in our January / February issue.

DKTK

That’s one thing we’ve found now; a project such as this seems to be a better option rather than a one-to-one, I’m looking at more projects that will help many people rather than just one, and Jenny is now working extremely hard over in England trying to get as much information as she can which she will bring back to New Zealand, she’s having singing lessons with all the singing teachers I’ve made contact with, which is valuable because then she will know their techniques and be able to advise the singers who want to study in England. They can come to her for advice and she will have made the contacts, and will have already asked these teachers if she can send students to them; she’s not making any decisions for them, she’s just saying “Here are three singing teachers, this is what you might like to look at”. Because it’s not her job to decide. That’s part of what we’re doing. I have another project in mind to invite a singing teacher, or someone with a great knowledge in opera, to come out to New Zealand and share their experience and expertise for about a month, and that would for be for many singers. At this moment I’m looking at a baritone, and as we’ve got so many baritones in this country, even if this person worked with six baritones over a period of a month, to me that’s more valuable than sending all six over to Europe at huge expense. The expense would be taken up out here. I think the Foundation would benefit from that, and it would also show where we are as a standard. What I’m worried about is that they arrive there, unaware of the standard and it takes them quite a few months or even years to get up to standard.

GW

Do you think it’s harder now for young singers than when you first went overseas?

DKTK

You know, I can’t tell because I think it was hard for me, I still think it’s hard for them, I’m looking back and thinking that there are many, many more opportunities; scholarships, and moneys, and people willing to give money.

GW

How do you select the young musicians, because it’s not just singers you support, and what does the support of the Foundation mean to them?

DKTK

Well for instance, if one wants to go and work with a particular conductor I will ring up the conductor and ask if that person can have a week, or some time with them, or, for example, Placido Domingo, if they want to work with him, I’ll ask where he is, and if he will give them time. There’s all that sort of thing I can do. At Covent Garden I’ve asked if Jenny can sit in on all the rehearsals which has been very valuable. These are the sort of things that young singers should be allowed to do, but you can’t always get those doors open.

GW

Having this amazingly wide network of music people and contacts you are able to make the opportunities for these young people, which is pretty amazing.

DKTK

But I don’t do it for everybody. I only do it for those I think are deserving, because if you do it for someone who’s not good and doesn’t treat the opportunity well then you’ve lost your credibility.

GW

Being very carefully selective is obviously part of it. I know you mentor a lot of young singers. I spoke with Anna Leese a couple of weeks ago and she was certainly full of praise and thanks for all the help you’re giving her.

DKTK

It’s been nothing but a pleasure. She’s very bright, and she’s going places. That’s wonderful to see and she never misses an opportunity which is wonderful, and you’d like to see her take every chance she can. I just hope she doesn’t wear herself out, that’s the only thing. (Laughs)

GW

Having said that, what do you think is the most important advice you can give them? Clearly when they’re talented and ambitious, and promoters want them to do something, how do you suggest to them the best way to approach, what can often be, too many offers for them to do?

DKTK

What happens quite often in some cases, they’ve got several jobs and I would say “Is that one signed” and they will say “No”, so I will say “Well, that should be the job you don’t do.” So I’d advise them on that. If it’s signed then I say “Then the other one’s going to have to go, but you’ve missed a much better opportunity.”

You have to know which are the better jobs. It’s not that they’re second rate jobs, it’s just that the better one is sitting there and you’re not taking the full opportunity.

GW

So you’re able to get them to think of the position they are in their career, which of the opportunities being offered to them would be most beneficial to their progress.

DKTK

Certainly to their progress, and also looking at some of the performances they’re doing, if they just step in, although Anna did step in as she was well prepared, but sometimes if they just go into another opera house, a foreign opera house, German or French, and they’re going in with about three days rehearsal, I’d advise them not to do that, because, if it’s Paris or Bordeaux, or wherever, I wouldn’t want them to go in under-rehearsed. So I’d advise them not to take that job until they get three weeks rehearsal and then they would do a better job.

GW

I’m sure that sort of advice from all of your experience will be invaluable to them.

DKTK

Sometimes you think “Why do I have to spend three weeks doing this, I can do it in three days?”, but that doesn’t make for the best performance, it’s very important that when someone sees you for the very first time then they see you at your very, very best, and not “Oh, that looks under rehearsed, the dress doesn’t fit, they don’t know where they’re going, and they’re just standing down the front and singing it.”

GW

There’s a difference between people who can sing, and people who can communicate and perform. In your view, from the top of the opera ladder, in what ways has opera, in the international sense, changed?

DKTK

It’s organic, it’s constantly changing, and it’s very hard to know. If you’ve learned your trade well, and you sing the parts very well, you’ll get the jobs. As long as you’ve got the right agent to do it, and they’ve not got another singer they would prefer, and they’re pushing that other singer, you’ve got to be careful of who’s on their list as well.

GW

Agents represent an enormous number of singers and there are a lot of promising singers coming through their books. It must be quite a challenge for young singers to get a very good and supportive agent in the first place, and also important to have one who’s not hedging their bets a bit, with two or three options.

DKTK

Yeah well, I think they do that a lot.

GW

Clearly an enormous amount of hard work and preparation is required, but how much do you think that luck is involved in making it to the top?

DKTK

There’s a little bit of luck there, but I think that hard work gets you there too, and a lot of other factors. If you look good, that helps, but if you’ve got personality problems, if you can’t get up on stage, if you’re having difficulties, that doesn’t help. As long as you can do the job, that’s all that people want.

GW

That’s something I was talking about with Anna, a lot of singers have personal commitments, family commitments which can impede their progress, because they have to, unfortunately, be pretty determined and focused on where they’re going and it can be hard, I’m sure. I think that’s where the work that you’re getting done with the Foundation, when singers from New Zealand go over to London, really helps, so it must be of great benefit having the contacts. It’s a pretty individual pursuit and even though they may be at prestigious music schools and make new friends there, they are away from their family and friends back home.

DKTK

Yes, “Here are some addresses, here are some names”. When I caught Jonathan Lemalu in London, I didn’t realise he’d only been there three days, he didn’t know what to do, and I said “Are you all right?” and he said “Oh yeah, I’m fine”, so I called him around and we had a cup of tea and a sit down and a talk, and, as you know, he’s just taken off, but then, it was the first few days and he just needed someone to talk to.

GW

The Foundation must have people who are scouting and noticing young musicians who might have potential but you must get inundated with requests and they would need to be filtered to weed out the ones who are total impossibilities. It must be a hard process when making choices.

DKTK

Well, I’ve helped a couple now that we don’t see anything of. I’ve given them a few coaching lessons because I thought it would have helped, but two or three of them I just don’t see any more and this was two or three years ago. No idea what they’re doing. We’ve got some there that are successful, Ana James, Anna Leese at the moment, I’ve only helped them a little bit, just enough to encourage them and give them positive thoughts really.

GW

When it comes down to it they have to have the self motivation and self determination, and sure, you can give them pointers, but if someone can’t carry through on that then there’s little more help that you can give them.

DKTK

That’s exactly right.

GW

And throwing money at them is not the way to go.

DKTK

That doesn’t do it. We’re fairly careful, we just don’t throw it around. If somebody comes up that’s looking very good we’ll go very, very quietly, very gently and then maybe help a little bit more, so it’s always very gradual, it’s never “You’ve got this amount of money for the year”, It’s nothing like that.

GW

That’s the way it has to go, because I often, myself, feel a bit concerned when people win a big competition; it puts so much limelight and pressure on them to achieve almost immediately after that, when they’re still really in the formative stages.

DKTK

Very much so and over here they are, very much, in the formative stage.

GW

I know that Jenny Wollerman’s study grant is a pretty amazing thing, and everyone in the opera world here has thought that it’s one of the best recent initiatives.

DKTK

We tried to get Creative New Zealand involved and, of course, they wouldn’t look at it.

GW

Which is a shame, and a little short sighted.

DKTK

It doesn’t matter, maybe they’ll pick it up next time, I don’t rule out anything at the moment, but I thought “There’s enough money in the Foundation to provide for this” and within a very short time we had received the same amount of Jenny’s grant money back in donations. There were so many people interested that the money started coming in.

GW

Have you spoken recently with Jenny?

DKTK

No, we’re just seeing the e-mails and letting her report. I will be seeing her definitely on the 28th of April. We’ll be having a whole weekend together. I can’t wait to sit down with her. I hope you will do an article on it.

GW

That’s what I would like to do.

DKTK

She’s so bright too, that’s what’s so wonderful, and she’ll be thorough. That’s what I like about her. Every time I asked her a question it was thought out and the answer came back, but so clearly I thought “Oh, this is wonderful”.

GW

It’s very exciting.

DKTK

I’m excited by it.

GW

I can tell!

DKTK

Quietly excited. I don’t want to get over excited.

GW

I liked what you said earlier about going slowly and carefully, because we’ve all seen things in the past where there’s a hiss and a roar, and then suddenly it all dies down and you never hear about it again.

DKTK

Yes. Ours start off very quietly, and I just want to keep it slowly, slowly, slowly, a little project here, a little project there, and I think the Wollerman project, once we’ve seen it and how it works, we might do it again in two years time.

GW

It reaches right out into the musical community and deals with things that haven’t really been dealt with before.

DKTK

I don’t know why. Maybe this is the right time, the right place and we’ve got the right person. I think you’ve got to look at it like that really. The value is that no one thought of it, not that we have to be first, but it would have been very nice if this could have been there for the last 40 years.

The next and most important thing, but I don’t know how much I can influence it, is to try and get the visa stautus changed; we have no rights as New Zealanders, which is very sad.

I think that if a person is highly talented, the opera house takes them up and they sort out the visas. So if they have got the talent, then it would work.

GW

The essence is the highest level of talent, because there are a lot of very good singers out there, but one needs to focus on the ones with the most outstanding potential. We’re quite lucky in New Zealand to have come up with quite a few. (laughs)

DKTK

(Laughs) We’ve had quite a lot, haven’t we.

GW

And it goes back a few years.

DKTK

Like Mina Foley, she was our star. I heard her when I was very, very young, in Gisborne. It was pretty amazing, and I think that it inspired me a little bit. It was interesting reading the obituary item about her in your magazine.

GW

We do know that you yourself have inspired an enormous number of young New Zealanders, not just in the Arts or music. It’s very heartening to be able to look overseas and see an iconic New Zealander who is at the absolute top of their field.

DKTK

It is encouraging for those young people thinking “Well, we could do something like that”.

I’ve just been talking to 20 young 14 year olds, they’ve come from Masterton, and they were asking “What inspires you, what makes you go forward, what makes you believe in yourself?’” And I said “One of things is that I don’t go with negative people.” If someone is being negative I move out of that company. I’m into the positive. As they say “You have to know when to leave the party”. (Laughs) One of them wanted to know if I had a motto, and I said “Yes, the one thing I always believed was that I never missed a green light” and they said “How does that work?” and I said “If you’ve ever walked down the street, at any time, any street you liked, you’ve got to go from one place to your destination, you never stop walking, it’s in traffic, so if the light was about to change to red just before you got to it, then the other light was going to go green, then you took it, then the next green light, then the next green light. That’s how I never missed a green light.

GW

I’d love to keep talking. I’m really enjoying talking with you.

DKTK

Thank you very much. At least it’s a far more interesting one than I had in the newspaper the other day.

GW

I try. (Laughs)

DKTK

(Laughs) It’s always nice to talk to someone you think “Oh, we’re on the same page”.

GW

It’s been an absolute privilege. Thank you.

DKTK

It’s very nice that there’s a magazine for our type.